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Posts Tagged ‘personal attacks’

OTM of Assumptions 2

Posted by Henric C. Jensen on March 7, 2010


I witnessed a dialogue between two people – which ended with the person represented by text in red leveling some outrageous accusations against the other – based on nothing but assumptions (and, I suspect, a dark malicious heart dead set on hurting and harming another). Quite disturbing, considering where it took place – in a site where people are supposed to be guided by ‘their higher selves’.

"It doesn’t matter what one’s intentions are, ___.
Hitler’s intentions were to create a better Germany for Germans.
Conquistadors were to create more prosperous home world.
USA attacked Iraq and Afghanistan to defend USonians.
All good intentions.
What they did to reach there was inexcusable and very wrong."

"USA attacked Iraq and Afghanistan to defend USonians."
I had to look up the term USonians as in my entire 53+ years of living as an American I have never heard the term used in reference to my countrymen.[…]My conclusion:  an archaic term which has outlived modern usage and not in use today.  ___, I suggest you update your vocabulary and use the term American when discussing my countrymen so as not to offend or confuse us.”

“I realize you are not American and thus cannot share in my pride in being one, but many nations around the globe would certainly be upset if the money that the United States contributes to their coffers were to suddenly dry up because we American’s decided to stop those payments and instead use those funds to take care of issues at home instead of abroad.  We Americans are getting very tired of criticisms from countries abroad though some are rightly deserved.  Its just that when you get shot down enough with criticisms you lose the desire to help those who shoot you…and there also goes the desire to help with foreign aid…Perhaps it is time for other countries, perhaps yours, to make up the payments the United States has been making to the rest of the world for a few years???”

“WHAT?

95% of the world is not USonian. I am 100% sure that there are more people who would be happy to have the “Yankees (and especially Dixies) go home” and take their armies, coca cola and MacDonald’s with them, than people who would be sad.

USA is not alone in the world, and it has deserved every bit of criticism it gets. USA does a lot of good, but also a lot of bad. If you get tired of the criticism, don’t blame the critics, DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE YOUR ACTIONS.

Don’t help us. We can manage fine without you. We did it thousands of years before United States of America was even thought of, and we will do it fine even after you have long ceased to exist.
Besides, most of the USonian help comes with a price tag that is way too expensive.
Look at what happened to Hawai’i when US came to “help” them. :->
When US UNFAIRLY AND ILLEGALLY attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, and some countries objected to this, what did US do? Started demanding “gratitude for WWII”, when “you saved us” AND a slander campaign against these countries. :-> You seem to have forgotten it, but I haven’t.

Don’t forget that your dear US has a national debt held by foreign nations of about 3 trillion dollars. That is 3 and 12 zeros.
Don’t forget that USA hasn’t paid its due to ODA nor UN for years, if ever.
Don’t forget that 75% of US aid money is private donations, and that  PROPORTIONALLY EACH OF THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES GIVE MORE THAN USA, even after the private donations are counted.
You might need to read this: USA: Foreign Aid
Don’t forget that USA has been very active in CAUSING the damage countries need help with. Not only by warring (always on someone else’s land, huh?), but by murdering democratically elected presidents, because they happen to be socialists, forcing countries to accept unfair trade contracts, colonialism and not to talk about the environmental damage.
Don’t forget that most of your oil comes from somewhere else. Do you still remember when the gas price started rising and how the US reacted on that? Now, think what would happen if you didn’t buy any oil at all from outside US.
Don’t forget that most of your human resources are foreign imports, immigrants or their children.

I think you would do better to be less prideful and more realistic, understanding that you might be one of the richest, biggest and strongest countries of the world, but you are still only one country among the about 200 countries of the world.”[…]

“I had to look up the term USonians as in my entire 53+ years of living as an American I have never heard the term used in reference to my countrymen.”

“Isn’t it great that you learn still new words in English after half a century of using it?

Actually, it’s not an archaic term. More and more people are starting to use it in this new Millennium, to synchronize the language use in the world that is getting smaller.

I can tell you that I too was used to use the word “American” of only USonians, until some years ago I participated in a discussion in which many non-USonian Americans expressed being offended by the use, as it was making United States THE America, as if no other American country mattered.

It’s not “American army”. It’s “US army”.
In your stamps it doesn’t say “America”, it says “USA”.
In many maps the country you live in is called “United States” or “USA”.
Everyone knows what United States mean, but America – could mean a lot of things.

The Olympics start next Friday – there are five rings on the Olympic Flag, representing the five continents: Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania and America.
When I say “Asian”, I mean a person who comes from the continent of Asia.
When I say “African”, I mean a person who comes from the continent of Africa.
When I say “European”, I mean a person who comes from the continent of Europe.
Naturally, when I say “American”, I should mean a person who comes from the continent of America.

I could suggest you update your vocabulary and use the term USonian when discussing with non-USonians so as not to offend every other person living on the continent of America.

As I don’t assume you are after offending anyone, and because I understand that the world is so used to use words for which the reasons to use them is past recall, I’m not suggesting it.

But, you might take it under consideration. An old Swedish man protested in the newspaper against the prohibition of the N-word, as he was used to use the word and didn’t mean anything negative, offensive or derogatory with it. In Sweden, we are discussing other such words that have become part of the colloquial language, but that are obviously offensive, when one understands the reasons why people started using it.”

"I spent time Google searching the term and any reference to the term in describing American’s was old, or infrequently used by non-American’s but the vast majority of references to the term Usonian was to the style of architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright who was designing housing before I was born in the 1950’s.

I find the term archaic and every time I see you use it I cringe because I do not consider myself Usonian but American.  I am not a type of architecture and I find that when you use that term to describe me and my countrymen you are offending us, an entire nation of Americans. 

You have to be careful how you approach people in the words you use to them.  You went out of your way in that discussion to use that term at every point just to be obstinate so you could offend me and my countrymen time and again and you were successful.  You went out of your way to be hurtful and this is the type of activity that you engage in that offends people again and again ___.  Since you engage people in these ways time and again you get the negative reactions/responses you get from people ___.  Stop intentionally trying to be hurtful to others like you did to me and you will stop having those types of reactions."

Where did the person represented in blue text “go out of their way to be obstinate…to offend…”? Where did the person represented “go out of their way to be hurtful…”?

The answer is: Nowhere. The person represented by text in red and green is going by nothing but their own assumptions about another’s motivations and intentions, and formulating accusations and personal attacks based on this assumed ‘fact’ – which they have no way of knowing anything about. This is accepted in a site where the tolerance for personal attacks is supposed to be zero. Where people who give air to their personal perceptions – clearly stating them as such are told by the Site Admin that they should be careful about ‘assumptions’. Pardon my French, but what kind of frigging crap is that??

 

Posted in General, spirituality | Tagged: , , | Leave a Comment »

OTM of Broken Trust and Self-Righteous People

Posted by Henric C. Jensen on March 3, 2010


I decided to trust someone with a fact about my life and my family, and this someone decided that she knew better than I what was good for me and for my marriage and for my wife. She broke my trust and then she had the audacity to lecture me on the ‘meaning of marriage’.

Here is what I responded to her when she had broken my trust and violated my confidence and insulted me to boot. Now if she had any decency, any simple, common, human decency, she would respond to me in the discussion or in private, but sadly to say, I believe she is one of those self-righteous and sanctimonious people who can’t admit that they were wrong or acknowledge that they have seriously hurt another person. The funny thing is that I am 99% certain that she did it on purpose – she is probably so convinced that she knows the Truth about me, that she honestly believes she has the right to punish me for my shortcomings and character defects she thinks I have. It might play into it that I had the gall to censure her husband when he went overboard with the personal attacks and insults in an attempt to teach people how not to act and interact on-line. I normally keep people’s names out things when I write, but this time I need to share the Truth, as well as warn others not to share private, personal or sensitive information with this individual, because she will most likely violate your trust.

For the context please refer to this thread for the complete context

Yes Dov, Your wife isn’t going to object to your presence now is she and yes, you are the one person in the world who is most likely going to know anything about what it she that she needs and wants.  So why then is she coming to this forum and asking others what did she do wrong? How is it that she feels the need to come to others for answers if she can get all she needs and wants from you?

Perhaps because I don’t think she has done anything wrong. She doesn’t understand what she has done wrong, so she asks the people who seem to be the ones thinking she has done something wrong. If you believe that you will get everything you need and want from your husband, you are in for a disappointing ride, Barb. As well as laying a huge burden on Torch. But that is the most common mistake made by married couples.

She is asking for critiques from others about what she in her perception did wrong.  I am not even responding to that topic but I am asking you to give her some room to grow from others answers.

I can read, Barb, you don’t have to repeat what Ket already said in her original post. She has all the room she wants and needs to learn from others – the problem here was that Torch wasn’t teaching her anything or responding to her in a respectful manner, so I moderated, as I should. If I had been so hot on preventing her from learning, don’t you agree that I would have responded to Mary or Mr. who seemed to take her questions seriously and answer in a respectful manner? Ask yourself – what was Torch saying that prompted me to come and engage him? How did he go about saying it? Don’t bother about whether you agree or not or what you feel about him – if you read Torch’s posts from 6:08 to 8:43 – are those posts made by a man who is actually answering the honest questions asked in the thread starter? Someone who is giving constructive and helpful guidance to a person asking for help? If I had written those posts, would you have thought that those posts were made by a man who is actually answering the honest questions asked in the thread starter? Someone who is giving constructive and helpful guidance to a person asking for help?

I do understand your need to be protective of her but I also see her as a very capable woman who can take excellent care of herself with extremely high communication skills.  I am just suggesting that maybe she doesn’t need the knight in shining armor to come to her defense that you see yourself being.

No you don’t understand. In fact you have misunderstood completely, and it’s connected to the idea you have that I do, whatever it is you think that I do, because I am married to Ketutar. I don’t see myself as her knight in shining armor. I don’t think I ever have, that’s one of the reasons I lover her – she doesn’t need or want me to be, so I don’t have to try and be something I can’t be.

I know that she is totally capable of fending for herself – she a member in more Forums than this, and she’s doing just fine there (interestingly enough though, she doesn’t have the problems there that she has in Gaia)  – I hear her mutter away at her keyboard and yes, she is extremely intelligent, has extremely good communications skills, plus a lot of other things that one needs to participate on-line. 

You telling me this, which I have known for 15 years, as if I am 15 year old boy on his way to his first date, getting some last advice from Mommy, is rather ridiculous. Especially since Ketutar the one who needs to come bail me out 😀 among all the debris of logical fallacies, Schopenhaueric Techniques and what not that litter people’s posts like it was candy here.

As to my responding in a “wifely” manner…I would have made the comment I made whether my husband had made his comments here or not.

But I can’t possibly be making my comments out of simple agreement or because Ketutar is a human being and at times I see something that is out of whack in a response? It has to be because she’s my wife, there is no other possible reason.

You don’t know me Barb. If you did, you would know that I would defend anyone if I thought they were being unfairly treated or at a disadvantage somehow. That’s who I am and that’s what I do. If you do not believe me, you can ask Dale Husband, he is the one person here in Gaia who has known me the longest, except for Ket.

The only reason that I am here, is that I am a mod in this Pod, and this is the only discussion where there is any activity at the moment (since this mess started). The only reason I am in any other discussions around Gaia is because I want to be. The only reason I was in any of the discussion linked to was because I wanted to be. It’s that simple.

As to my comment about your and Ket being a married couple…what is so wrong about that being common knowledge?  First off, I thought I had read somewhere in the last couple of months that it had already been exposed elsewhere though i can’t recall where at this point in time and Torch remembers that as well.  Additionally, what do the two of you have to hide from everyone else in keeping your marital status secret from the community? 

Our marriage is not a secret, Barb, and there is nothing I would have liked more than tell all of Gaia what a lovely wife I have and how proud I am of her and her accomplishments both here and elsewhere. However, we have been together/married for almost 15 years – and during those 15 years we have learned that people will assume that married couples are joined at the hip, share a hive mind and/or defend each other blindly and regardless of their own opinions, much the same assumption you are making here.

Leading to people who dislike one spouse automatically disliking the other spouse – guilt by association sort of. You yourself implied this thinking once to me, when you asked me if I could consider being friends with you despite your husband (I think you might have thought that I disliked him after the chronic pain thread or something like that). All of which results in a bloody mess, such as accusations leveled at one spouse for things the other was involved in, insinuations about one spouse leveled at the other. Other things, from people thinking that one spouse is using the other’s account, is really a sock-puppet, to really nasty little gang-ups where a ‘loathed’ couple is being subjected sexual harassment or suggestions about their sex-life being circulated and even posted in public.

I don’t think you can even imagine what it’s like to be sent pictures in email or have pictures posted in groups you host – pictures of naked molested women, where the face is replaced with that of your wife. Or be sent links to private pods where your wife’s picture is being displayed with all sorts of lewd comments and she is being voted the ugliest woman in Care2.com. I hope to G-d that you and Torch will never have to go through something like that, Barb.

All of the above was the reason I asked you to keep it to yourself that Ket and I are married. Do we have anything to hide? No, but I have learned that it’s safer for both of us if we don’t tell people that we are married. Yes, one of our friends, who also has ADHD, like I do, posted in his pod a short welcome note when we joined his pod – the note was there for perhaps 5 hours before I saw it and asked him to remove it/edit it. He made a mistake. You breaking your word to me here was not a mistake.

We wanted it kept out of the Gaia Forums so I and Ket could feel safe, and you just couldn’t imagine any other reason than that we somehow must have something to hide and you used that information to what?

To point a finger at me and tell me that I am pretending to be my wife’s knight in shining armor and that I am preventing her from growing personally? You broke a trust to score a point?!

Do you now understand why I was having that row with Nicole about the ethics of sharing private information in public – the one that Torch is having such a fit over in his 8:43 post?

Don’t you think its pretty obvious from the way you post in such evident support of each other that you are a couple?  Denying each other and your love and support of each other has to be harmful to your marriage.

You yourself told me that you had no idea when I told you – so why would others, just because we occasionally (we are not members of the same Pods, I hardly know what Ket does here, except when I see her I a discussion we are both in) agree in discussions or support each other in some way?

You are reading in 20/20 hind-sight, Barb.

You know we are married and therefore everything we do becomes an obvious sign that we are married – when we could just as well be very good friends or siblings.

In fact our marriage is healthier when people on-line don’t know, because it doesn’t have to suffer the strain of on-line life, and we are healthier too, because contrary to common belief about marriage, it’s strengthening factor when each of us can move about without constantly being thought of as ‘the other’s spouse’. We want to feel safe. I don’t want to be half a human being with an appendix, or  simply an appendix, nor does Ket as far as I know, what’s so wrong about that?

Shalom,
Dov

Posted in Personal | Tagged: , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

 
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