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On the matter of balanced discourse

I’m telling you, SB… grandma diplomacy. Who’s gonna hate you with their bellies full of your grandma’s chicken soup? Of course, men being men, they’ll probably start arguing about who’s grandma has the best soup but a little slap on the back of the head and a plate full of my grandma’s butter cookies and that should shut them up for awhile.”I think we might have passed beyond Grandma’s Chicken soup on this one – besides, Israeli Red Magen David paramedics, routinely take Palestinian wounded, regardless of whether they are civilians or not to Israeli Hospitals, inside Israel.

Why I say that we might have passed the point where Grandma’s Chicken soup will work is because it’s been refused time and time again – the biggest bowl was in 2000 when Yassir Arafat said no to Ehud Barak’s offer of just about everything (except all of Jerusalem, which Arafat demanded) including both material and financial assistance to build a viable Palestinian State. He just refused. Now, if In had been a Palestinian, and I really wanted peace, I would have taken it – Freedom and Independence first, the rest are minor details.

I can in those videos see the reason why. Children as young as 3 yo are taught that Jews are apes and pigs, the Palestinian Imam tells his Community that Jews will never keep a deal and that they are filthy animals, among other things. Preteens are taught to use guns and dream of going to Israel to shoot Jews with their newly acquired weapons…

You don’t see that in Israeli TV on Prime time – you don’t see Israeli kids chant in preschools that Palestinians are filthy animals or that they are an infection that must be “cured”.

So it seems to me that the hate is quite one-sided. I have seen Israeli kids throw stones at Palestinian Houses or yell at them, but never such hatred as what I saw in those videos.

I agree that they must all stop – but I understand why they don’t and I also think that people are being way to hard on Israel, considering those videos.

“So you don’t think that displacing people to make a new land called Israel would anger those displaced people?”

Where they actually DISPLACED? If your landlord sells the house you live in to another without telling you, and you don’t like the new landlord, and therefore move out and leave, have you been displaced?

Or what if the above took place, and the new landlord wasn’t aware of certain restrictions put on the usage of the garden that surrounds the house, and he plants his oranges among your apples against those restrictions that he wasn’t aware of – has he then stolen your garden?

As for the anger – BG, there is only one Orange – it’s been cut in half for the two brothers to share – there is no putting the Orange back in one piece, so demanding that and violently protesting that it was cut (a cutting that was done quite legally I might add) isn’t going to plant the seeds to get an Orange Grove, now is it?

You wanna be angry, or you wanna eat oranges?

“As you present it SB, you seem to point only in the direction of the Muslims.”

From where I am standing the proportion between those speaking on behalf of Israel (not necessarily agreeing with all she does…) and those speaking on behalf of the Palestine (not necessarily agreeing with all she does…) are very lop-sided.

If I walk into a room and I see 15 people on one side of it and 2 people on the other side, and the two people are being attacked and accused, rightly or wrongly (in this case it’s a little of both) – I will walk over to the side of the two being attacked/accused, for the sake of balance.

I live in a country that will say next to nothing good about Israel, and will find every possible excuse for the Palestinians – This is what I see here in HRN, in Care2 as well – those speaking up for a balanced and fair view of the conflict are very few.

You might have noticed that those who “defend Israel” have not actually defended her, but have actually asked for a more balanced, less emotional and less propagandist and more truthful approach to debating the issue. I kept presenting material and facts that would give a little balance, I also kept correcting misconceptions that many have about the actual historical events. Unfortunately during “the first round” much of my time was taken up with having to fend off personal attacks based in assumptions about me as a Jewish person, that I never really got a chance to elaborate on things – i.e my own personal opinion. I did speak of my own personal opinion on the matter – but for some reason people either didn’t read my posts carefully or they simply chose to disregard what I said – mostly I think they were so busy attacking either me personally or my wife or Israel (for wanting a more balanced view) or, in some cases the Jewish People as such, that they gave a shyt about what I actually said. And from where I stand, it seems that those who are “violently” defending Palestine, even to a point where they LIE to get their message accross, are not really interested in hearing what exactly I or Ket or anyone speaking for Israel’s right to exist in safety (don’t forget that even in this Group, HRN, people have asked for her utter annihilation) have to say or even why we say it.

I haven’t heard anyone among the 15 “over there”, except Z and A, acknowledging that the Palestinians have actually done something wrong, it has been a steady stream of condemnations of Israel, but no-one condemns Hamas, PLO, Fatah, The Al Aqsa Brigades, Hezbollah etc for their violent attacks on Israeli civilians, or their abuse of their own People, as shown in those videos you take exception to as “my pointing only to the Muslims”.

BG- go through the archives, and count the links to videos, articles and websites that condemn Israel, and then do the same with videos, articles and websites that condemn the Palestinian Terrorists – and I am sure you will see just how unfair your statement is. This was the second time I posted actual evidence of Palestinian Antisemitism and violent propaganda.

And why did I do it? Because I am utterly tired of the lop-sided, in many cases hysterical and deceitful Pro-Palestinian propaganda that is being posted in this Group, a Group where everyone are supposed to be for the Human Rights of all, and which has no other purpose than incite hatred and violence against one single country – Israel.

If it hadn’t been for me and Ket and our research in here, NO-ONE would know how the Palestinians were actually screwed by the Arab League, NO-ONE would know that the Palestinians are not welcome as citizens in any of the member nation in the Arab League, or that the Palestinians in those nations are being abused, have their human rights violated – denied jobs, medical treatment, schooling, higher education, and are hoarded together in “refugee-camps” that makes the UNWRA camp in Gaza look like the Ritz.

So let’s just say that your comment about my being against the Muslims, was “an honest mistake”. Ok?


 October 18, 2006 2:38 PM

“our personal stance”

I don’t think you even know what my stance on the Israel-Palestine issue is, as I have not said very much about that in here – BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BUSY bringing “the other side of the story” here, not because I by inherent automatic agrees with it, as some will have you believe, but because if I, Ket, Elizabeth, and Christoffer didn’t do that Israel wouldn’t get a fair shake (because this Group would be inundated with Pro-Palestinian propaganda), all we ever hear is the Palestinian side of the issue – and that is not fair, nor is it in keeping with the principles of the UDHR.

Take a look at the collection of discussions on the issue in the Israel-Palestine I thread, and you will quickly find out that rather than actually giving our own position on the issue, we have struggled to bring balance. For every Pro-Palestinian Post made here, we have striven to bring “the other side” – now if people actually bothered to see this [ that we are only striving for balance and fairness], instead of seeing it as an attack on their position and get defensive and/or call us all kinds of names including Nazionists and Baby-Killers, then perhaps we [Members of HRN] could actually discuss the issue from a point of view of seeking a solution to the problem of Human Rights Violations on BOTH sides of the fence.

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