SOB’s Grins & Grumps

Everything Between Heaven and Earth and Beyond

  • Copyrights, Feeds and Contact

  • August 2007
    S M T W T F S
    « Jul   Sep »
     1234
    567891011
    12131415161718
    19202122232425
    262728293031  
  • Visitors Count

    • 64,271 hits
  • Categories

  • Meta

Condemning Antisemitism, applauding Islamophobia…

Posted by Henric C. Jensen on August 2, 2007


Islamophobia – unreasonable or completely justified?

Islamophobia is a fear or prejudice towards Muslims and the religion of Islam.

However, this fear or prejudice is completely and certainly justified.[…]

In Germany, the state of Baden-Württemberg openly discriminates against Muslim immigrants, making Muslims, and only Muslims, take a test of loyalty – answering questions about attitudes to Homosexuality, Dress sense, Domestic violence and religious issues. This has been referred to as Islamophobic and racist.

But this is necessary for this group and in fact should be similarly done in this country. When French Muslims try to burn half of Paris, when British-born Muslims bomb their own subways, when Spanish Muslims destroy their own railways, and NO OTHER GROUP or NATIONALITY does likewise, is it not only prudent but absolutely essential that we question Muslims on loyalty? As to domestic violence, is it not a requirement of their religion to murder their wives or daughters if there has been a perceived ding against their Honor? Aren’t most complaints of servant abuse against Muslim masters who have no respect or regard for women?

Now, compare that to this Blog entry – which the guy used to comment on my Page on Benjamin Freedman’s 1961 Speech: 13 things to blame on the Jews in which he derides people, organizations, Arabs and others for blaming things on the Jews that they are not responsible for.

I’d call this a serious case of hypocrisy and double standard.

This guy doesn’t realize that his reasoning around Muslims is exactly the same as the reasoning Antisemites start out with, BEFORE they start making up things to blame on the Jews.

One part of this Entry is especially chilling and enlightening:

“When French Muslims try to burn half of Paris, when British-born Muslims bomb their own subways, when Spanish Muslims destroy their own railways, and NO OTHER GROUP or NATIONALITY does likewise, is it not only prudent but absolutely essential that we question Muslims on loyalty? – compare to the reasoning in France before and during the Dreyfus-Affair:

Anti-Semitism was pervasive in France during the 1890s. With the formal inception of the French Third Republic in 1871, in the 1880s nationalist politicians such as Georges Boulanger, Edouard Drumont (founder of the Antisemitic League of France) and Paul Déroulède (founder of Ligue des Patriotes) sought to capitalize on the new fervor for a unified Catholic France. French Jews were described by the author George L. Mosse as a “nation within a nation

One of the most common and prevalent accusations against Jews in both Europe and the US, over the time of history, is that of “Dual Loyalty”:

“A classic example of political dual loyalty is a person who is a dual citizen or who is an immigrant living in one country, although the term is sometimes used in connection with people that have religious, cultural or political ties to a political interest other than the country of their primary residence. As opposed to ethical dual loyalty, which is often a self-described situation, political dual loyalty typically appears as an attack or a pejorative accusation designed to target and discredit a particular person or group, and to call into question the loyalty of that group to the country where they reside. As such, the accusation of “dual loyalty” is often used or co-opted by racist or xenophobic groups within a country, regardless of the original intent of the accusation.

What we have here is a guy who is presumably pointing to Antisemitic conspiracy theories and condemning them while at the same time suggesting that Muslims (note the generalization…) are guilty of something traditionally being pinned on the Jews…

Bernie – I am impressed at how you mange to put both your feet in your mouth while having your head up your own ass so far that you must be eating yesterday’s lunch.

Sweaty Feet with a side order of Yesterday’s Lunch.

Bon Appetite!

Advertisements

4 Responses to “Condemning Antisemitism, applauding Islamophobia…”

  1. Dale Husband said

    It seems to me that some people find me so confusing because I attack all forms of prejudice, against both Jews and Muslims, even while in places like the Middle East Jews and Muslims hate each other. It’s the “Whose side are you on?” mentality (and I use that term loosely) that really irks me to no end. It’s not about taking a side, it about seeking justice for ALL!

    Like

  2. I can relate to that, Dale. I think people are confused about me too.

    It’s as if people think that one has to be either or – there is no middle ground, no balance and no common sense.

    I mean you just cannot condemn one kind of prejudice and applaud the other.

    Something that I have noticed is that somehow ones “own group” cannot be criticized. For me to criticize f.i Ultra Orthodox Jews for their discriminatory treatment of non-Orthodox Jews is often seen as some sort of betrayal, even by non-Orthodox Jews…

    But to me it’s just another prejudice that needs fighting against.

    Like

  3. bernie said

    If anyone argued that we must expel Muslims from Europe simply because they had dual loyalties I would be supporting Muslims.

    I am equally impressed with you, that you equate French dislike of Jews because they peacefully had dual loyalties with my dislike of Muslims who blow up their countrymen.

    I certainly do not think Muslims are guilty of something traditionally pinned on Jews since traditionally Jews were not bombing, maiming, torturing the citizens of their adopted countries.

    Anyone who dislikes Muslims qua Muslims is a bigot. But I did not say we should question the loyalty of Muslims simply because they are Muslims, did I? You silly old Bear.

    I have noted that many Jews were so traumatized by the Holocaust that they are afraid to recognize evil when they are absolutely confronted with it for fear of being called intolerant. Certainly it happened in this case where I am accused of being intolerant of terrorists as if that were some moral evil.

    But let’s take an extreme case. I hate bigotry but would you accuse me of it if I told you I hated ALL Nazis? Certainly some Nazis had to be decent human beings, no? Or wouldn’t you say that the very foundations of National Socialism were so evil, so depraved that any member, even if they did not actually commit murder or mayhem, deserved my disapprobation?

    Or have you joined most modern Jews who would joyfully jump in ovens today rather than criticize another religious group?

    Like

  4. Bernie,

    Let’s look at what you said in your Blog and what you say in your comment:

    “If anyone argued that we must expel Muslims from Europe simply because they had dual loyalties I would be supporting Muslims.”

    I doubt that very much – why? Because of the way you use “Muslims” as a general term. The way you express yourself indicates to me that you are not just worried about a few Islamist Radicals but about Muslims as a Group – the way you bring domestic violence, honor killings and other non-terrorist abuse into the picture clearly shows that you are NOT just attacking a few radicals – you are attacking an entire group of people, based on your ill-percieved ideas about what is the requirements of their religion.

    “I am equally impressed with you, that you equate French dislike of Jews because they peacefully had dual loyalties with my dislike of Muslims who blow up their countrymen.”

    The parallels I draw between your islamophobic attack on Muslims as possibly being guilty of dual loyalties and the same behavior displayed in Europe during f.i the times of the Dreyfus-Affair are very accurate, because they both ascribe to an entire group of people certain characteristic behaviors. The manner in which this group express their alleged dual loyalty has no bearing on the matter. And even if it had mattered – the manner in which the Jews were allegedly displaying their alleged dual loyalty was deemed equally as lethal and despicable as that which you ascribe to Muslims in general. The fact remains that you do describe Muslims (you do use the term as a general term, meaning ALL Muslims, just like any antisemite uses the term “Jews” or “Zionists” to implicate the entire Jewish or Zionist “population” in their similar rantings.) in a manner that is islamophobic and hateful.

    Do you honestly think that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which in the times of the Dreyfus-Affair was generally considered an authentic plan for Jewish world domination, was not used as a manual for what the Jews were doing and why they thought to have dual loyalties?– if you do you are not just ignorant, you are dangerously stupid as well. Exchange the word “Goyim” in the PEZ with the “Dhimma” and you will have rather perfect blueprint for what you are ascribing to Muslims.

    “I certainly do not think Muslims are guilty of something traditionally pinned on Jews since traditionally Jews were not bombing, maiming, torturing the citizens of their adopted countries.”

    Yes you do – the thing traditionally pinned on Jews being “dual loyalties” – which you clearly suggest in your Blog that the Muslims are guilty of. What they do as an expression of that dual loyalty, again is irrelevant, because the point is the dual loyalty issue.

    “Anyone who dislikes Muslims qua Muslims is a bigot. But I did not say we should question the loyalty of Muslims simply because they are Muslims, did I?”

    Yes you did, in the way you generalize in your use of the word “Muslims”. That generalization makes you a bigot and an Islamophobe.

    “I have noted that many Jews were so traumatized by the Holocaust that they are afraid to recognize evil when they are absolutely confronted with it for fear of being called intolerant. Certainly it happened in this case where I am accused of being intolerant of terrorists as if that were some moral evil.”

    If it had not been for the fact that I am painfully aware of Bigotry, because I fight it every day of my life as a Jew, I might actually not have had my radar go off while reading your Blog. All I have to do is exchange the word Muslims with Jews, and the bigotry, racism and hatred becomes VERY clear. If you had used terms like “Radical Islamist Terrorists” or just “Terrorists” I would have been ok with your blog, but you didn’tyou consistently used the generalizing term “Muslims” thus indicating an entire Group, and that is bigotry.

    “But let’s take an extreme case. I hate bigotry but would you accuse me of it if I told you I hated ALL Nazis? Certainly some Nazis had to be decent human beings, no? Or wouldn’t you say that the very foundations of National Socialism were so evil, so depraved that any member, even if they did not actually commit murder or mayhem, deserved my disapprobation?”

    Actually, very much in National Socialism was very good, not immoral, evil or even slightly depraved. For one thing – it did the German people a lot of good in terms of commerce, economic stability, well fare, and national pride – nothing wrong with that. The general German wasn’t anymore Nazi than I am, and as such he/she accepted the benefits given by National Socialism, that’s not evil. One cannot condemn an entire group on account of what specific factions or doctrines say or do. If you condemn all Germans, who were required to be Party members whether they liked it or not, as Nazis or disregard the good in National Socialism because of the evil in it, then I would have to disagree with you strongly.

    You might have thought you were condemning Radical Islamist Terrorists, which to draw your analogy to the National Socialist Party would be equal to the SS, but you didn’t use that term or even indicate that you meant the Radical Islamist Terrorists, you consistently said “Muslims“.

    “Or have you joined most modern Jews who would joyfully jump in ovens today rather than criticize another religious group?”

    Excuse me?
    Firstly – criticism is one thing – demonizing, generalizing for the effect, is something completely different. You will find in my Blog(s) if you care to read a few entries, that I a criticize a lot of things, including religious Groups, including my own.

    Secondly the reference to joyfully jumping into ovens is so idiotic that it’s not even worth refuting. But: If my death could prevent unjust treatment of another because of his/her religious affiliation, then that is a good thing.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: